ScamVictimsUnited.com

I don't think the person who got scammed should pay the bank. Ultimately it is the bank who accepted the checks and told the person it was good and placed the funds in that persons account.

If the banks had a better system of making sure that the checks are good and finding that its counterfeit, then the victim would not be in the position he or she in the first place!

The banks are responsible in my opinion.

In the Deposit Agreement you sign to open the account there is a disclaimer "The customer is responsible for anything they deposit" That is standard verbage for any demand deposit account.

If you fail to sign this agreement, you cannot open an account.

I agree with you, but armac is correct that it is in the "small type" that none of us read when we open a bank account.

I have always said that the people who work with money and checks all day long for a living should be the ones that are better able to spot and stop these counterfeits, but the burden still falls on the customer unless someone changes the laws.

Shawn let me point out one thing, these counterfeit checks are printed on authentic check stock, with magnetic ink, with the proper titles, routing numbers and account numbers. The only thing that makes these checks counterfeit is that somebody besides the issuing bank printed them.

How can you expect a bank to pick out a check that is authentic, every thing is proper, except it was not created by the issuing bank.

Can you explain that to me?

when you opened your accounts at your bank (or any financial institution), you agreed to be legally responsible and liable for any financial instrument you deposit into your account.

The same rule applies whether or not the deposited item was indorsed; however, please understand that when you indorse a draft to be cashed, your signature on the back of that draft is a contract that you are accepting full legal responsibility for the draft.

This is generally how a bank account agreement reads:

Your Responsibility
You are responsible for all obligations arising out of the ownership and maintenance of a Deposit Account, including the amount of any check, draft, or other instrument (each, an "Item") deposited to the account and for which the account was credited, any overdrafts to the account created by you or any account owner or authorized user, any service charges to the account, or losses arising from the breach of any representation or warranty you make to us in the Account Agreement or under applicable law, and the costs we incur to enforce our rights under the Banking Documents or to collect any sum you owe us under the Banking Documents, including, to the extent permitted by law, our reasonable attorney's fees.

Is the bank going to come rip the roof from over your head and leave you to starve? No, they can't do that so long as you are aggressive about reaching a repayment agreement that works for both of you.

The first thing you must, must do is put your budget together - money in, money out, quarterly expenses, annual expenses, income taxes, clothing expenses, auto maintenance, the whole nine yards. This is a personal version of an income statement. You will need to do this in order to negotiate with the bank. They can try to come at you with some sort of pre-determined monthly payment, 5-year agreement, but it does them no good if the money is not there. They cannot take your last dime.

If they insist on following such a foolish course, you gather up all the paperwork, including a copy of the agreement and the names, titles, and contact information of those who are pressing the agreement on you, and take the lot to an attorney.

Again, generally speaking, if the bank takes you to civil court, and you can prove that you've made every effort to be reasonable, forthright, and insistent on repaying the bank, then the bank will be forced to accept the repayment ruling of a court-appointed mediator or of the judge. Oh yes, and pay for their attorney's time and court expenses. All courts are not the same, so please consult an attorney who knows your local courts far better than we do.

Armac- You are not even close on these checks being authentic. They are copies of good checks. My Bank was so compelled to tell me what a good counterfiet I had gotten that My Lawyer said get a good one. I did and it does not have watermarks and it's not even the same paper.
Why does it cost you extra money for cashiers checks? They are special with security features that tell another Bank that they are good and the Bank can give you the money right away. That is the whole purpose of a cashier's check!
The Banks try to intimidate People and they try and brain wash you also.
FOCUS ON THE CHECK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's the basis of a good law suit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

[/quote]

How many counterfeits have you seen? I see about 25 a week, it is part of my job to deal with them, some are crap but many of them are on authentic check stock. Look on the internet you can buy check stock, it is not that expensive.

armac- Do they have water marks? NO! None of them do!
You pay extra for cashiers checks and they have security features that bank personel should be able to recognize if trained properly!

Oh please don't even get me started by saying the banks are all that innocent here!!! Banks get what's called "Bank Alerts" from the FDIC among other places. QCheks is another instrument that should throw up a bunch of red flags as many fraudulant checks are written using their so called services! Banks deal with this on a daily basis.... so you cannot tell me they cannot pick out a fraudulant check or money order when the alerts are right there in front of their faces! They are just do damn lazy to read them! Banks know exactly what's going on and if you fight it hard enough they "will" incur the loss. I know because I did it and won! There were alerts all over that bank concerning QCheks yet they cashed them saying they were good and nothing was mentioned to me whatsoever about these alerts. And something as simple as picking up the "phone" and calling the bank it's drawn on and have them check with the account owner "before" cashing the check may be a quicker solution than what they are using now. I did this with one of the checks I received myself and it took exactly 15 minutes to find out that the owner of the account did not write the check. I also think those so called agreements for liability to open an account is a crutch that the banks use to try and rid them of the responsibility and that's all these agreements are written for. But those agreements don't mean a thing as I found out. Because the bank "was" aware of the fraudulant QCheks going around. Heck there was even a write up in the local paper about it, how could they not know?! They had copies of the QChecks posted at the tellers stations. QCheks is playing innocent too, as well as Western Union, but the scammers love them because they are the perfect conduit to produce these frauds and no one can touch them! If I help someone to print a fraudulant check on my printer I would be arrested for aiding and abetting a crime yet these companies are not held responsible. That's a bunch of bull! Maybe those elected officials in Washington need to get out from behind their cushy desks and make some changes in the laws such as with that rediculous bank agreement! And start putting some pressure on banks as well as companies like Qcheks and Western Union to better protect the public as a whole. Western Union is at least trying by posting about scams on their websites. What bank anywhere have you ever gone into and found a warning about scams??? I've never seen even one mention anything about scams at any bank I've ever been too. These scams are out of control, the banks know it, the government knows it and until they get together and decide to do something about it these scams will continue and more people will get hurt. What ever happened to good customer service??? Protecting your customer should be your first priority! I said this in another post and I'll say it here, education is the key that will put a stop to this. If the banks and companies that deal with checks and money orders would just put warnings out to help educated people about these scams, that would be a step in the right direction as word of mouth and print speaks volumns..... and this site is proof of that as you can read how some have been saved because they came here first and were educated about these scams thus saving them from the horrors of becoming a scammed victim.

Here you go, buy yourself some check stock, some magnetic ink, everything. It is not hard for a scammer to buy the exact stock that a bank uses.

BTW I have already filed several complaints about Qchecks with all the government agencies and contacted the FDIC personally, what have you done?

http://www.ganson-store.com/gensym-1.html

Sorry . . . but I have to let you know that the counterfeit check that WE got DID have watermarks on it.

Some are on authentic check stock, and some are very good copies of real checks. Sometimes they take one check (so yes, it is a good account and routing number) and copy it hundreds of times. By the time anyone finds out that they have over a hundrend copies of one check, they are long gone with the money.

If the banks verified the checks, like they tell the customers to do, they could stop a lot more of these. I am not saying pick up the phone on EVER cashier's check that comes to the bank, but how many $8000 or larger checks really go through ONE bank location in ONE day?

This is the other thing that has always been up for debate about checks . . . I have worked in retail situations where you have to run the checks through the check readers . . . from the info on the personal check it can reject the check due to not enough funds or even just if someone has written too many checks in one day (protection against checkbooks being stolen) . . . so if they can do this in most major retail situations why can't they do a similar thing with cashier's checks at banks? The reader would tell you "not enough funds" in that account or that the account has had several checks in the past week (sign of someone getting a good check and copying it to make thier counterfeits)

You and a kizillion other people have done the same thing and what were the results??? Didn't get any did ya?! People are still being scammed and as long as these businesses continue to be lax about scams, it will just continue to be a vicious cycle. Sure it's on paper with these agencies and while that's a good thing as it's an actual "record" of the scam, it doesn't do much as far as solving the problem. I contacted those same places and a whole lot more. I've written to senators and congressmen, I even sent a letter to the White House! I'm extremely active in this fight and as long as there are people out there who need to be educated, I will remain involved. I've been at this for over a year now and I'm doing what I can to get the word out, in fact we had a day long seminar here today with the FDLE to educate those who attended about cyber crimes, how to recognize them and what to do if you are confronted with a possible scam. http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/press_releases/20060417_C-SAFE_Seminar.html I have no doubt you have a big problem with scammers too, or you wouldn't be here. Try looking for these kind of programs in your area and get involved, if you don't see any, start one! It's works like the local community watch programs. Your local police departments would work with you and even send someone to speak. Local churches, libraries etc would give up a room to hold these meetings in so that people can learn more about cyber crimes and how not to become a victim. I'm highly motivated and involved in the local community and if I can save just one person thru education from being scammed then I'm making a difference and getting results..... that's what I'm doing.

I am a fraud investigator for a bank, I give public workshops on a regular basis. I also lead a financial group of the local banks and law enforcement, I am doing my part in South Texas

And Shawn many of the counterfeit checks are coming in at the $3900 range now. Since we started verifying the larger checks.

I will be down in Orlando for a fraud seminar in June